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Topic: «AWM > Window Settings > Default Settings , Default Settings & Global Definition » on forum: Feature Requests   Views: 4283
 
Zardoz2293
Advanced user
 
 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 08/28/2014 00:22:36
 
 
 I'm confused in regards to the AWM > Window Settings > Default Settings. Since some of the behaviors can either be a bit complex or other items effect the behavior of other items I'd like to suggest or propose some of the following:

( a ) There is a check box next to the Default Settings under the Window Settings Tree View. It can be unchecked and yet there are "Default Settings" which have 'global' effect regardless of this setting. Not good, it's confusing. Having it unchecked by my definition means no 'Default Settings' whatsoever. Please educate me on the logic so I can see through your eyes. I'm struggling with this one as I just don't see it being intuitive UX (User Experience) and the UI (User Interface) is off.

( b ) If there are 'global' effecting settings (which is great) the UI needs (must) be enhanced so it is intuitive, without thinking about it, the end-user should be able to immediately identify those attributes which have 'global' effect. I seriously feel this would significantly enhance the UX and cut down on technical support issues, well at least for me.

Example: AWM > Default Settings > Title Buttons > Actions Available Via Title Buttons (frame): If all elements or attributes under this frame or grouping are global then the label for the grouping could be:



Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Zardoz2293
Advanced user
 
 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 08/28/2014 00:27:16
 
 
 I hate to muddy this thread but I keep running into questions regarding posting on this forum. Is there a posting/forum document?

Q: Can one attach more than one image to a single post? If so how? If the about image is referenced as http://www.actualtools.com/upload/forum/upload/16f/16f7afe202b17972cb00beb69ea8e39c­ can the post be edited and referenced with the [img][/img] without the reference/image being lost?

Why doesn't this work?:
[IMG]http://www.actualtools.com/upload/forum/upload/16f/16f7afe202b17972cb00beb69ea8e39c[/img]

Thanks for the information and advise.
Lars

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Alexander Mihalkin
Administrator

-retired-
 
 Posts: 502
Joined: 04/21/2014
Posted: 08/28/2014 21:39:34
 
 
 Hi, Lars!

Thank you for your posts!

( a ) This checkbox - User added an image
enables/disables the Default Settings. It means that if it is checked, the rule will apply, and if not - it will not. Whether it's checked or not, adjusting each parameter of these settings will or will not affect the corresponding Specific Settings rules parameters, depending on the match or difference between the values of these parameters in Default and each of the Specific Settings rules.

Quote
Having it unchecked by my definition means no 'Default Settings' whatsoever.
True, it turns the Default Settings off. But if you go and change the disabled Default Settings rule, some of these changes will apply to some of Specific Settings rules. Then, regardless of the fact that Default Settings remain unchecked, you might see the behavior you've just set in the Default Settings because some of the Specific Settings have been changed automatically to maintain the former similarities with the Default Settings.


( b ) As I was trying to explain in this thread, Default Settings haven't been made global. Adjusting them affects only the certain Specific Settings rules and only in certain conditions. That's why it would not be less confusing if we added the word "Global" to any captions in Default Settings.

------------------------------------------------------------

Here's how we see it. Default Settings are there to let you configure one rule to handle ALL the windows in the same manner. But sometimes you need to handle certain windows in a manner that is partly different from the Default. Then you create a Specific Settings rule and configure SOME aspects that you want to be different from the Default. This means that you want these certain windows to be handled differently only in those aspects and you want all the rest aspects to be just as those in the Default Settings. And if you reconfigure the Default Settings, the changes will not affect the differences, but will affect the similarities. This relieves you of reconfiguring each Specific Settings rule to meet your changed needs. This seems rational for me. What do you think? Do you have any parameters that are totally the same for each and every rule in your configuration?

And, as I have casually noticed in your configuration, you aren't using Default Settings, but you do create Specific Settings for quite a number of applications and windows, so I suppose that you shouldn't have the need to change Default Settings at all.

------------------------------------------------------------

As for the forum - we will consider adding the functionality to attach multiple images easily. In the meanwhile you can use direct image URLs from any third-party resources to publish the images, like I did in this post.

Best regards!

support@actualtools.com
 
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Zardoz2293
Advanced user
 
 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 10/08/2014 12:00:32
 
 
 Alexander,

Quote
Here's how we see it. Default Settings are there to let you configure one rule to handle ALL the windows in the same manner. But sometimes you need to handle certain windows in a manner that is partly different fr om the Default. Then you create a Specific Settings rule and configure SOME aspects that you want to be different fr om the Default. This means that you want these certain windows to be handled differently only in those aspects and you want all the rest aspects to be just as those in the Default Settings. And if you reconfigure the Default Settings, the changes will not affect the differences, but will affect the similarities. This relieves you of reconfiguring each Specific Settings rule to meet your changed needs. This seems rational for me. What do you think? Do you have any parameters that are totally the same for each and every rule in your configuration?

I agree 100 percent with what you have said. The reason why I have disabled the "Default Settings" is because it was impossible for me to tell what was really being applied, seriously. AMW is a great product, I realize the interface/UI is very difficult to create and have the end-user intuitively understand the configuration effects -- this is wh ere I get lost, and, I've developed computer software for decades.

I also believe I'm experiencing the Default Settings are missing some of what I consider critical functionality which only exists in the specific definitions, otherwise I suspect I could get rid of 80 to 95 percent of my Specific Definitions, which would be my preference.

I know another of my concerns is what is considered to be "defaults" in the "Default Settings" as I've been very hesitant to changing these values. In looking at them now in detail, I'm positive I have never configured most of these items to the values they are, and have assumed they were AWM defaults. From my perspective the "Default Settings" should be blank (as in nothing is defaulted from the way Windows is configured or operating on your system. There are just some data values which are always sel ected, I'd argue many of these are really data values with three states; not assigned/defined, checked and unchecked. It's a perception from the end-user's perspective. I also think there needs to be a method to click a button in the "Default Settings" to return to the 'defaults' whatever those are.

My comment about "global" I'm going to take from a different angle. I'm trying to persuade you software geniuses to seriously consider and then implement this idea: When and end-user goes into the "Specific Settings" for a window they should visually see the fields which are currently having "Default Settings" applied or would be applied and the value which exist in the associated (Default Settings) field. To me it is all about looking and immediately understanding how my configuration is going to be effected, without guessing. I also think fr om within the "Default Settings" there should be the ability for any configured "field" to get an on screen display report/listing showing the "Specific Settings" items which are overriding that default setting. I believe if implemented correctly you could eliminate at least half of the technical support requests generated as well as having more happy end-users. I also see the added benefit of this expanding the market of end-users as the complexity to achieve the desired result would be lowered and therefore lowering the learning curve for using AWM.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Lars

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Zardoz2293
Advanced user
 
 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 10/08/2014 12:27:22
 
 
 Here is an example. Windows Notepad, I don't have a Specific Setting for it and I've enabled the Default Settings which is defined to have the Size = Keep aspect ratio. I apply the AWM changes. I make sure Notepad has a width which is too large for the second monitor and then drag Notepad and place on the other monitor. Nothing happens, Notepad is not being modified.

Just found a bug.
http://www.actualtools.com/forum/read.php?FID=10&TID=&MID=14726#message14726

Just found a bug.
http://www.actualtools.com/forum/read.php?FID=10&TID=&MID=14727#message14727

I'm sure the two above defects are playing a major role in why I don't use the Default Settings.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Lars

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Alexander Mihalkin
Administrator

-retired-
 
 Posts: 502
Joined: 04/21/2014
Posted: 10/09/2014 19:57:27
 
 
 Dear Lars,

Thank you for your posts!

1. If you aren't using Logging, I strongly recommend you to try. You will be able to see which rule has been applied to each window on-the-fly.

Right-click the Actual Window Manager tray icon, click the Show log window menu item and mark the Enable logging checkbox in the log window.

2. As for the defaults in Default Settings, there are no "on startup" actions enabled by default, so nothing should be different from standard system settings except the additional controls - title buttons and window menu which are added by default.

3. We will consider the feature request about adding a menu item to reset Default Settings to defaults.

4. About marking the Window Settings values which are global - I have finally understood what you mean, thank you for your explanation! We will consider somehow making it clear which values are similar in Specific and Default Settings. At the top of my head it could be just highlighting the Specific Settings values which are inherited from Default Settings. What do you think?

5. As for the Notepad example - it's totally okay, because the aspect ratio is supposed to be kept only if you move a window to another monitor with a title button, window menu, hotkey or via a window rule. If you drag the window, its size will remain as before.

Best regards.

support@actualtools.com
 
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Zardoz2293
Advanced user
 
 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 10/09/2014 21:26:24
 
 
 Alexander,

As always, I am grateful for your assistance, talent, insights, and more:

Quote
1. If you aren't using Logging, I strongly recommend you to try. You will be able to see which rule has been applied to each window on-the-fly.
Yes, I do. It is very helpful tool with some types of problems. However, there can be too much data and there needs to be a capability to limit what is displayed. When I write my own software and I encounter a problem and I know some of the facts regarding it, I immediately remove all other data elements to limit the big data effect of trying to find a needle in the haystack. You are an expert at your logging tool and I suspect your mind visually limits what you need to see based on a type of problem you are encountering. This is good. However, that creates a lot of learning curve for non-experts. You have color coding to aid in quickly finding specific events, but I'm saying additional capabilities of actually limiting reporting of messages is also desirable. I'm not pushing for the complexity of many of the Windows' Spy Messaging tools, but somewhere in-between. Example: I'd like at times only to report on a subset of my Specific Setting items and then be able to save that as a logging profile for future selection of criteria. My value in my career has been the ability to rapidly detect and find defects. I struggle with AWM to create my utopian Windows working environment. I'm sure there is some bug in the Default Settings area which is acting as an amplifier in me not being able to quickly resolve configuration/behavioral activity.


Quote
2. As for the defaults in Default Settings, there are no "on startup" actions enabled by default, so nothing should be different from standard system settings except the additional controls - title buttons and window menu which are added by default.
Correct. When I have the "Default Settings" UNCHECKED I do not have 'strange' behavior occurring. When "Default Settings" is CHECK, for me, I'm encountering behavior which I would not expect. Number #1 above does not help in solving this concern as there is something wrong with how "Default Settings" is working when ENABLED.

I have been concerned that I might have "corrupt" configuration data file(s). However, that doesn't make any sense to me as to why I'm experiencing AWM's behavior with Default Settings CHECKED. If there was "corruption" in any of AWM's data files I'd expect an end-user notification if such corruption was detected and end-user data was lost. If recovery worked correctly and all end-user data is valid, then I still expect to be notified as attention needs to be given as there is something wrong occurring which caused the corruption. I don't believe there is end-user configuration data corruption. I do think there is some coding behavior and response to data values which might be unexpected (for whatever reason) and are not being handled correctly in the code in the "Default Settings" area. This can currently be seen in the Default Settings > Index.Size and Default Settings > Size.Options>After Moving to Another Monitor section. These values are identical yet in AWM they are not synced for some reason (at least in AWM 8.2 Final).


Quote
3. We will consider the feature request about adding a menu item to reset Default Settings to defaults.
Perhaps an "advanced" option/switch which the end-user could enable/disable which displays the ability to "reset to default". I don't want to continue to repeat myself so I'll just reference #2 above as I know a 'reset' in theory would solve my problem but not fix the code which is causing the problem.


Quote
4. About marking the Window Settings values which are global - I have finally understood what you mean, thank you for your explanation! We will consider somehow making it clear which values are similar in Specific and Default Settings. At the top of my head it could be just highlighting the Specific Settings values which are inherited from Default Settings. What do you think?
That sounds good. My perspective is I don't want to 'read' text/description/help about inherited values but actually visually "see" the inherited data/activity as then it is intuitive that those visually different values have a special meaning. Reading the details on what the visual differences mean then has a higher level of understanding with the reader. Excellent idea -- I like your approach. This wording is more accurate to how I'd want to see it implemented: "highlighting the Specific Settings values which are currently inherited from Default Settings." Therefore, if fields in the "Default Settings" are not set the associated Specific Settings fields would not be highlighted. Is this what you are saying?


Quote
5. As for the Notepad example - it's totally okay, because the aspect ratio is supposed to be kept only if you move a window to another monitor with a title button, window menu, hotkey or via a window rule. If you drag the window, its size will remain as before.
I understand what you are saying. However, I'm not experiencing the behavior when I do add a title button to it. I need to reference the "Default Settings" are UNCHECKED on my system so getting a default behavior for me has to be implemented on all of my Specific Settings currently. I just created a Notepad Specific Settings with Title Buttons and the Size. Keep aspect ratio is not working for me. Further, I'm perplexed at why I'm getting inherited "Default Settings" values applied to a "Add Window Rule" when "Default Settings" are UNCHECKED.


What are your thoughts?

Sincerely,
Lars

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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