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Topic: «AWM 8.2 - Final , Deactivated Field Values Being Applied » on forum: Technical Support   Views: 10693
 
Zardoz2293
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Posts: 302
Joined: 27.07.2010
Posted: 08.10.2014 14:05:30
 
 
In trying to work with the Default Settings and then going through each of my individual Specific Settings and seeing if I can remove them, I'm encountering many of the strange behaviors which originally prompted me to deactivate the Default Settings and apply only Specific Settings. This is what I am finding.

Default Settings were enabled and disabled trying to figure what is causing this strange activity.

Using Firefox Specific Settings, AWM > Window Settings > Specific > Size, enabled of of the Resize Window Automatically by setting Width 100 percent of current monitor and Height 50 percent of current monitor. I don't like the results I get. So, I disable this setting. Perhaps enabled/disabled Default Settings and then like magic, after turning OFF the Resize Window Automatically, my Window for this Specific Setting gets applied, which it was disabled.

I'm also encountering a lot of problems with AWM screen sizing, positioning, and placing Windows out into the desktop never land where they are loaded and I can move, select or otherwise get the application displayed on either monitor without turning off the Specific Settings and Default Settings.

The problem with the AWM algorithms is they are assuming the primary monitor, Monitor #1, is the de facto width and height of all other monitors in the system. Please create a system configuration with two monitors. One as landscape (2540 x 1440) and one as portrait (1440 x 2540) and ideally with a significant difference in height/width so you can see how far off things get when AWM applies sizing, positioning, limiting, et al.

What are your thoughts? Feedback?

Thanks,
Lars

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Alexander Mihalkin
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Posts: 502
Joined: 21.04.2014
Posted: 08.10.2014 20:06:16
 
 
Dear Lars,

Thank you for your post!

I have tried to reproduce the issue you describe with one of my monitors in a portrait mode, but resizing at startup seemed to work fine, as well as moving to another monitor and not working when disabled. Please send us your configuration files, it might clarify some significant details.

Best regards!

support@actualtools.com
 
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Zardoz2293
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Posts: 302
Joined: 27.07.2010
Posted: 08.10.2014 20:28:13
 
 
Alexander,

I've provided my configuration files as requested. Please let me know your findings so I can assist where possible.

Thank you!

Sincerely,
Lars

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Alexander Mihalkin
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Joined: 21.04.2014
Posted: 08.10.2014 22:13:05
 
 
Are you using default dpi, Lars?

support@actualtools.com
 
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Zardoz2293
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Posts: 302
Joined: 27.07.2010
Posted: 09.10.2014 04:50:23
 
 
Alexander,

Quote
Are you using default dpi, Lars?
The default of "Smaller - 100%"

I've attached a composite of several screen shots on the DPI system configuration, below (including how my monitors are physically configured and represented in Windows):



Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Zardoz2293
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Posts: 302
Joined: 27.07.2010
Posted: 10.10.2014 00:14:19
 
 
Now I have more information on why the "Default Settings" (herein DS) is driving me crazy. Take ESET Smart Security, it has a notification window which can be activated to display modified system changes. I require this information being displayed to me. This window should never have any title buttons displayed as it has no title and no frame. I have a Specific Settings (herein SS) rule defined for this window. Note, DS is currently disabled. DS has defined three title buttons. I then enable DS and immediately I have problems as the ESET Notification window is displaying the three buttons defined in the DS. I don't agree if a SS rule already exists and doesn't have buttons defined that when a DS has title buttons defined that should override a pre-existing SS rule by inheriting the title buttons. Having this behavior would require checking every single SS rule, in my case, 97, and verify what has and has not changed based on DS having the priority to modify/override.

What are your thoughts?

Sincerely,
Lars

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Alexander Mihalkin
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Posted: 10.10.2014 21:32:35
 
 
One more question to you, Lars: could you please tell me how to invoke that particular ESET window?

Thank you for your posts!
Best regards.

support@actualtools.com
 
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Zardoz2293
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Posts: 302
Joined: 27.07.2010
Posted: 12.10.2014 02:03:31
 
 
Quote
One more question to you, Lars: could you please tell me how to invoke that particular ESET window?
Alexander, let me give you another product which has at many examples of 'windows' which popup and have title buttons attached for which this would never be desired and is easy to produce (relative to my ESET reference).

Hovering over any item in the J. River Media Center library (you must have at least one item, i.e., a song/music) will display a popup giving an overview of that item. That popup inherits whatever is set in the "Default Settings" (herein DS).

J. River's Media Center
Media Center Download


Often, a DS can have a catastrophic effect on an application causing it to crash. You never know application or window will crash until you load it. If you have hundreds of applications you use this can have a major negative effect on trying to configure everything so it either doesn't crash or behaves as you would like. Enabling DS with title buttons (or enabling the DS in the configuration file I sent) install and then execute "liteCam HD", see link below:

liteCam HD Download

In the case of liteCam HD adding an exception doesn't solve all of the problems enabling DS has on this application. As you know often commercial applications are inconsistent in the methodology and classes used. So you as an end-user might catch 95 percent of the "exceptions" (with a lot of work) but days or weeks later the application will fail. Eventually you will track it down as a feature which you didn't 'trap' for an AWM exception. Tracing the failure back to AWM DS enabled, disabling DS causes other problems exist.

It's the "hidden" features in DS which have a global effect are not obviously known, at least to me. Reviewing the documentation (at least where I've looked) the only thing I see is new text stating Specific Settings now inherit DS attributes in v8.2 forward.

Further, Default Settings is implemented globally, to everything (virtually) in the system. To me Default Settings is a "layered" concept. There are some features which should apply to all applications/windows and then there are those features which should be applied ONLY to those applications/windows in the Specific Settings. Having this model would resolve many simple and complex configuration problems.

Example:
Default Settings (Global)   -- Transparency = While moving 25%
Default Settings (Specific) -- Title Buttons = Move to monitor|Put into Divider tile
Specific Settings (Firefox) -- Title Buttons = Shift the buttons horizontally +2

In the example above, all applications/windows in the system would be transparent by 25% when they are moved via drag and drop, unless there was an Exception or a Specific Settings for an application/window which had a different value or disabled becoming transparent. Default Settings (Specific), these attributes would only apply to applications/windows where existed in the "Specific Settings" section, unless of course a specific settings rule had a conflicting value and then that setting would be used. Further, a capability in each Specific Setting rule down to each attribute would allow or prevent inheritance. There are cases where you want nothing to change regarding that attribute and currently if that attribute exists in the Default Settings and is configured that value will be inherited to the Specific Settings rule as assumed you want that behavior applied when in fact you don't. Under the current AWM design "Defaults", "Exceptions" and "Specific" configuration data has a loose coupling to the associated application/window. A model like below is more intuitive.

Default (Global to entire system; except specifically documented)
|....... NOTE: Within the software it should be intuitive what attributes
|....... are never applied to whatever applications/windows/classes, etc.
|....... There should be absolutely no guessing.
|
+-- Specific (Section)
... |
... +-- Default (Applied to all specific application/window rules)
... |........... NOTE: A default: specific can override inherited any
... |........... default: global attribute, unless there is some exception
... |........... or limitation which is again clearly stated fr om within
... |........... the software so there is absolutely no guessing.
... |
... +-- Application/Window (specific application/window rules)
....... +-- Exceptions (prevented fr om inheritance defaults: global
....... |.. and specific)
....... +-- Behavior (defined by sel ected attributes as well as showing
..................... inherited attributes fr om defaults global and specific)
     
The above is a data model and not necessary an exact end-user visual model. The reality is there are three levels of wh ere attributes can be applied:

Name         Number of Configurable Attributes
-----------  ---------------------------------
Global...... Few
Specific.... Some
Individual.. Most

When an end-user is configuring would be configuring the Specific area of AWM, then they should be able to see what attributes are being inherited from the Global area and know from a "visible" perspective wh ere the behavior originates. The end-user would be able to prevent inheritance on the attribute level from being propagated to all of the Individual rules as a default. However, at the Individual level or rules the end-user would "see" inheritance from Global and Specific and could prevent that effect. Further, if the end-user had modified or otherwise prevented an available Global/Specific inheritance that would be obvious by visual representation (including seeing that attribute value) so they could change and accept either the Global or Specific inheritance attribute.

I'm sure clarification is needed, but I'm just writing the basic concept. The overriding goals are simplification, power, and desired behavior the first time fr om and end-user's perspective.

SIDE NOTE: I've noticed this forum likes splitting words "fr om", "selected", "wh ere" and some others frequently whenever you edit your posting or view then edit. If you correct the 'space/break' introduced it looks correct until you post and then it's broken again. White space within paragraphs are be removed so it's not possible to type in a column entry or text diagram.


What are your thoughts?



Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Zardoz2293
Advanced user
 
Posts: 302
Joined: 27.07.2010
Posted: 14.10.2014 04:56:03
 
 
Alexander,

Adding the "\z" regular expressions window class only Exception solves some problems. HOWEVER, when this exception is implemented it removes all of the Default Settings capabilities. Is this not correct? In my case (based on the settings in the image below) I want all of the Default Settings to be applied system-wide, except "Title Buttons".

On a side note, I find Minimizing "Tray Icon Options: No icon|Screen Icon Options: Icon" to be deceiving as this is the Windows standard default. By having this displayed on the Index it implies to me AWM is overriding and creating this behavior. Less is more.

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Alexander Mihalkin
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Posts: 502
Joined: 21.04.2014
Posted: 20.10.2014 21:54:18
 
 
Dear Lars,

thank you for your reply.

Yes, the Exclusion I previously described is intended to avoid applying Default Settings to any windows. Use it to see which windows are eligible for Default Settings when using Actual Window Manager log without actually applying the Default Settings rule to them.

Screen Icon isn't available in Windows, it's an Actual Window Manager feature. Please read this article and try minimizing to screen if you are interested in this feature.

And yes, Tray Icon Options: No icon is a default Windows value for this option for most of the applications, but not for all of them. Since this behavior is available to control using Actual Window Manager, I don't see any reason why it should be hidden from the user. What do you think?

Best regards.

support@actualtools.com
 
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