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Topic: «License Expired? » on forum: Technical Support   Views: 45255
 
Casey Hayes
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 Posts: 11
Joined: 09/26/2014
Posted: 10/01/2014 01:32:56
 
 
Quote
Zardoz2293 wrote:

You are being a bit heavy handed, play nice.

My point is I'm not in agreement with you whatsoever.

You come across to me as the type of person who spends a significant amount of time looking for the exception where in other places it is posted correctly. Then claim 'I had no idea', to later then say 'Well, I saw all the updated notices, but there was one which was original saying otherwise and of course there was no ambiguity.'

You are drifting fr om your argument stay in the lane.

While I may have been a bit hyperbolic in my analogy, it was only to illustrate my point.

You have it completely backwards. You're painting this picture of me that I had glaring signs everywhere telling me what the license was good for, yet I spent "a significant amount of time" to find one place where it was not updated and am making a fuss over it. That is the exact opposite of what has transpired here, so please leave your conjecture and ad hominem out of this.

The ONLY information I ever received was that my license was good for everything in the 8.x family. The ONE place that mentioned the actual license usage was in the update notes for one patch. To expect every user to know to look in one particular section of the update notes, the one and only place this stipulation is listed, is ridiculous.

My argument was already voiced and addressed with Actual Tools. My reply to yours was a separate argument explaining why there is so much confusion.
 
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Zardoz2293
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 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 10/01/2014 01:41:02
 
 
 @Casey Hayes,

License policy notification was originally in multiple locations. Not "ONE" place as you stipulate.

Stay on topic, keep focused, you keep drifting.

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Pim Joosten
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 Posts: 549
Joined: 11/11/2010
Posted: 10/01/2014 02:05:02
 
 
Quote
the software itself displays an alert to the end user which highlights critical changes in an executive summary format with a link to the full documentation/legalese and requires acknowledgement by the end-user.
IMO it could easily be added to the Readme.txt file that is offered to open right after the program is installed (the file is located in the Actual Window Manager folder in Program Files). I never do that, because the text of Readme.txt never changes. I have often wondered what the purpose is of Readme.txt, because the content is very basic. Occasionally I will open the file to see if anything has changed, but the changes have never gone beyond the copyright date and the systems being supported whenever a new Windows version came out. So actually including such information, perhaps even the release notes for that particular version, might be useful and at the same time give more meaning to Readme.txt.
 
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Casey Hayes
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Joined: 09/26/2014
Posted: 10/01/2014 02:06:04
 
 
 Can you be specific on where exactly it was listed? That was my original qualm. This entire thread has only ever pointed to it being located under the update notes. So why is it just now being stated that it was, in fact, in multiple places, and why hasn't anyone specifically pointed out where that is?

Quote
Stay on topic, keep focused, you keep drifting.

You keep saying this. I'm replying to your own statements. Play nice. Don't be an ass.
 
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Pim Joosten
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Posted: 10/01/2014 02:09:17
 
 
 Just target the subject, not the people  :!:    ;)
 
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Zardoz2293
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 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 10/01/2014 02:23:35
 
 
 @Casey Hayes

Quote
Can you be specific on where exactly it was listed? That was my original qualm. This entire thread has only ever pointed to it being located under the update notes.

http://actualtools.com/support/how_to_upgrade.php

http://actualtools.com/support/faq/

and there could be others. Actually, the two above links and the release text document are not where I was advised about the version 8 forward policy changes. I don't recall where I saw it but it was discussed/posted in an additional two other locations.


Quote
You keep saying this. I'm replying to your own statements. Play nice. Don't be an ass.

Casey, my point for saying it over and over again is because you are what you wrote in the underline and bold.

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Zardoz2293
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 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 10/01/2014 02:34:07
 
 
 @Pim Joosten

Quote
IMO it could easily be added to the Readme.txt file that is offered to open right after the program is installed (the file is located in the Actual Window Manager folder in Program Files). I never do that, because the text of Readme.txt never changes. I have often wondered what the purpose is of Readme.txt, because the content is very basic. Occasionally I will open the file to see if anything has changed, but the changes have never gone beyond the copyright date and the systems being supported whenever a new Windows version came out. So actually including such information, perhaps even the release notes for that particular version, might be useful and at the same time give more meaning to Readme.txt.

Pim, the last place I'd expect to see a subscription service policy change would be in the readme.txt file associated with the installation of the software. My perspective is the readme.txt file only contains specific information on the software not licensing or subscription coverage, placing a link reference for the them is an excellent idea. However, I'd never specifically state anything other than a link.

The more locations you specifically specific details on licensing and subscription policy the high the probability there will be confusion, as in what has occurred. Now providing information in many locations where you can click and read the information fr om one source is the only way to go. Having to remember to update multiple locations with any kind of text which is a duplicate is asking for trouble.

I'm just saying if the software had a notification which alerted the end-user of an important policy change and to review it would benefit both the end-user and developers. An example is updating iOS which displays the license and acceptance. I would do it differently, but being notified wh ere there is no question about did or did you not get notified needs to be eliminated. It's not good for anyone anytime there is confusion on any important subject. As a developer I respect and value Casey's time and would not want to waste it or create tension using my product or service.

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Casey Hayes
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 Posts: 11
Joined: 09/26/2014
Posted: 10/01/2014 02:36:14
 
 
 That is helpful and certainly makes me feel better about my previously stated concerns.

Thank you for your assistance.
 
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Pim Joosten
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 Posts: 549
Joined: 11/11/2010
Posted: 10/01/2014 14:15:24
 
 
Quote
Pim, the last place I'd expect to see a subscription service policy change would be in the readme.txt file associated with the installation of the software. My perspective is the readme.txt file only contains specific information on the software not licensing or subscription coverage, placing a link reference for the them is an excellent idea. However, I'd never specifically state anything other than a link.
I was trying to combine your suggestion with my idea, that I've actually had for a number of years, to increase the value of the readme.txt file. Other software programs include the release notes in it and I think it might be a valuable addition. If the release notes were included, it could have included the policy change or, as you suggest, provide a link to the new policy on the website.

I must say I do not agree with you at first on showing a notification within the software. I must add that I am do not work in IT, I am just somebody who uses computers very much. Therefore I am making some assumptions here, which may be false. I think policy changes are rare for Actual Tools. Why would they then use their time and energy to include a notification in the software for that one time occasion? Hence, my suggestion to include the release notes in readme.txt and you have it covered in the software. Moreover, do realize that the policy change was implemented starting with version 8, for which most users had to buy a new license under the old policy. The moment to be informed is before making the purchase, not when one is installing the software when the software usually already has been purchased.

With iOS upgrades are always free, so there is maybe less need to inform users up front what has changed, although IMO that should also be done (maybe it is done, I do not know, I do not use iOS).

I guess the bottom line of this discussion is that policy changes have to be clearly communicated at a moment that a user can still make his or her informed decision about going forward or not. From that perspective I like your idea to have one page with the policy, with links at several to that page places (a.o. on the order page, but also on the product page itself). It is alsa rather easy to maintain I expect and it does not clutter product info pages if these contain only a link to the policy and not the policy itself.
 
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Zardoz2293
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 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 10/01/2014 14:45:08
 
 
 @Pim Joosten

The primary problem with containing too much information in the readme.txt file is simple human problem. People are lazy and will stop reading in most cases when it goes beyond a single page. There are of course exceptions, but the long it gets the more people drop out and skim over.

The biggest problem with policy, license and subscription issues is changes are almost always made so you really can't tell what has changed. Typically there isn't a summary of the major points made on a single line for each major item. Insurance policy changes seem to now show the removed as strike through text and new as bold. Regardless it comes the problem if it is more than one page you lose most people even if their life depended on it.

Having the software provide a notification to the end-user -- easy to do to build in a service to provide notifications and to categorize them as well. I see your argument as Actual Tools rarely changes their policy to be more reason to have an end-user notification ability within the software as you want everyone to know far in advance of changes that will occur. Every developer wants happy customers/clients. Misunderstandings create problems. Frankly speaking, in the time it has taken me to respond to half a dozen of these postings, I could have written a beta notification service within a software product.

iOS always being free. That's a very bold statement. In fact iOS had not always been free. If you own an iTouch a small fee was assessed to upgrade (at least in the past). Apple is always changing the terms of their agreement, that's why they require you to read and accept before installing the software. Originally in iOS you could download an App and later Apple removed it from the store, yet you still had it. Now they have the ability to remove any App you have installed purchased from the App store. That was a little part in that very long licensing agreement for iOS.

I've found one thing to be true throughout life. KISS = Keep It Super Simple. The only complexity to anything should be multiple-multiple levels of simplicity.

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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